What Did the Beatles Say About Jesus?

More popular than Jesus is part of a remark made by John Lennon of the Beatles in a March 1966 interview in which he argued that the public were more infatuated with the band than with Jesus, and that Christianity was declining to the extent that it might be outlasted by rock music. His opinions drew little controversy when originally published in the London newspaper The Evening Standard, but drew angry reactions from Evangelical Christian communities when republished in the United States that July.

Lennon's comments incited protests and threats, particularly throughout the Bible Belt in the Southern United States. Some radio stations stopped playing Beatles songs, records were publicly burned, and press conferences were cancelled. The controversy coincided with the band's 1966 US tour and overshadowed press coverage of their newest album, Revolver. Lennon later repeatedly apologised and clarified at a series of press conferences that he was not comparing himself or the band to Christ.

In March 1966, London's Evening Standard ran a weekly series titled "How Does a Beatle Live?" that featured individual interviews with Beatles John Lennon, Ringo Starr, George Harrison and Paul McCartney. The articles were written by Maureen Cleave, who knew the group well and had interviewed them regularly since the start of Beatlemania in the United Kingdom. She had described them three years earlier as "the darlings of Merseyside", and in February 1964 had accompanied them on their first visit to the United States. She chose to interview the band members individually for the lifestyle series, rather than as a group.

Cleave carried out the interview with Lennon in February at Kenwood, his home in Weybridge, Surrey. Her article portrayed him as restless and searching for meaning in his life; he discussed his interest in Indian music and said he gleaned most of his knowledge from reading books. Among Lennon's many possessions, Cleave found a full-sized crucifix, a gorilla costume, a medieval suit of armour and a well-organised library with works by Alfred, Lord Tennyson, Jonathan Swift, Oscar Wilde, George Orwell and Aldous Huxley. Another book, Hugh J. Schonfield's The Passover Plot, had influenced Lennon's ideas about Christianity, although Cleave did not refer to it in the article. She mentioned that Lennon was "reading extensively about religion", and quoted him as saying:

Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that; I'm right and I'll be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first – rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me.

Cleave's interview with Lennon was published in The Evening Standard on 4 March under the secondary heading "On a hill in Surrey ... A young man, famous, loaded, and waiting for something". The article provoked no controversy in the UK, where Church attendance was in decline and Christian churches were attempting to transform their image to make themselves more "relevant to modern times". According to author Jonathan Gould: "The satire comedians had had a field day with the increasingly desperate attempts of the Church to make itself seem more relevant ('Don't call me vicar, call me Dick ...'). In 1963, Bishop of Woolwich John Robinson had published the book Honest to God, urging the nation to reject traditional church teachings on morality and the concept of God as an "old man in the sky" and instead embrace a universal ethic of love. Bryan R. Wilson's 1966 text Religion in Secular Society explained that increasing secularisation led to British churches being abandoned. However, traditional Christian faith was still strong and widespread in the United States at that time. The theme of religion's irrelevance in American society had nevertheless been featured in a cover article titled "Is God Dead?" in Time magazine, in an issue dated 8 April 1966.

Both McCartney and Harrison had been baptised in the Roman Catholic Church, but neither of them followed Christianity. In his interview with Cleave, Harrison was also outspoken about organised religion, as well as the Vietnam War and authority figures in general, whether "religious or secular". He said: "If Christianity's as good as they say it is, it should stand up to a bit of discussion." According to author Steve Turner, the British satirical magazine Private Eye responded to Lennon's comments by featuring a cartoon by Gerald Scarfe that showed him "dressed in heavenly robes and playing a cross-shaped guitar with a halo made out of a vinyl LP".

Newsweek made reference to Lennon's "more popular than Jesus" comments in an issue published in March, and the interview had appeared in Detroit magazine in May. On 3 July, Cleave's four Beatles interviews were published together in a five-page article in The New York Times Magazine, titled "Old Beatles – A Study in Paradox". None of these provoked a strong reaction.

Beatles press officer Tony Barrow offered Cleave's four interviews to Datebook, an American teen magazine. He believed that the pieces were important to show fans that the Beatles were progressing beyond simple pop music and producing more intellectually challenging work. Datebook was a liberal magazine that addressed subjects such as interracial relationships and the legalisation of marijuana, so it seemed an appropriate publication for the interviews. Managing editor Danny Fields played a role in highlighting Lennon's comments.

Datebook published the Lennon and McCartney interviews on 29 July, in its September "Shout-Out" issue dedicated to controversial youth-orientated themes including recreational drugs, sex, long hair and the Vietnam War. Art Unger, the magazine's editor, put a quote from Lennon's interview on the cover: "I don't know which will go first – rock 'n' roll or Christianity!" Only McCartney's image was featured on the front cover, as Unger expected that his statement would spark the most controversy. The same Lennon quote appeared as the headline above the feature article. Beside the text, Unger included a photo of Lennon on a yacht, gazing across the ocean with his hand shielding his eyes, accompanied by the caption: "John Lennon sights controversy and sets sail directly towards it. That's the way he likes to live!"

In late July, Unger sent copies of the interviews to radio stations in the Southern United States. WAQY disc jockey Tommy Charles in Birmingham, Alabama, heard about Lennon's remarks from his co-presenter Doug Layton and said, "That does it for me. I am not going to play the Beatles any more." During their 29 July breakfast show, Charles and Layton asked for listeners' views on Lennon's comment, and the response was overwhelmingly negative. The pair set about destroying Beatles vinyl LPs on-air. Charles later stated, "We just felt it was so absurd and sacrilegious that something ought to be done to show them that they can't get away with this sort of thing." United Press International bureau manager Al Benn heard the WAQY show and filed a news report in New York City, culminating in a major story in The New York Times on 5 August. Sales of Datebook, which had never been a leading title in the youth magazine market beforehand, reached a million copies.

Lennon's remarks were deemed blasphemous by some Christian conservative groups. More than 30 radio stations, including some in New York and Boston, followed WAQY's lead by refusing to play the Beatles' music. WAQY hired a tree-grinding machine and invited listeners to deliver their Beatles merchandise for destruction. KCBN in Reno, Nevada, broadcast hourly editorials condemning the Beatles and announced a public bonfire for 6 August where the band's albums would be burned. Several Southern stations organised demonstrations with bonfires, drawing crowds of teenagers to publicly burn their Beatles records, effigies of the band, and other memorabilia. Photos of teenagers eagerly participating in the bonfires were widely distributed throughout the US, and the controversy received blanket media coverage through television reports. McCartney later compared the burnings to Nazi book burnings, citing the controversy as an example of "hysterical low-grade American thinking."

The furore came to be known as the "'More popular than Jesus' controversy" or the "Jesus controversy". It followed soon after the negative reaction from American disc jockeys and retailers to the "butcher" sleeve photo used on the Beatles' US-only LP Yesterday and Today. Withdrawn and replaced within days of release in June, this LP cover showed the band members dressed as butchers and covered in dismembered plastic dolls and pieces of raw meat. For some conservatives in the American South, according to Rodriguez, Lennon's comments on Christ now allowed them an opportunity to act on their grievances against the Beatles: namely, their long hair and championing of African-American musicians.

According to Unger, Beatles manager Brian Epstein was initially unperturbed about the reaction from the Birmingham disc jockeys, telling him: "Arthur, if they burn Beatles records, they've got to buy them first." Within days, however, Epstein became so concerned by the controversy that he considered cancelling the group's upcoming US tour, fearing that they would be seriously harmed in some way. He flew to New York on 4 August and held a press conference the following day in which he claimed that Datebook had taken Lennon's words out of context, and expressed regret on behalf of the group that "people with certain religious beliefs should have been offended in any way". Epstein's efforts had little effect, as the controversy quickly spread beyond the United States. In Mexico City, there were demonstrations against the Beatles, and a number of countries banned the Beatles' music on national radio stations, including South Africa and Spain. The Vatican issued a denouncement of Lennon's comments, saying that "Some subjects must not be dealt with profanely, not even in the world of beatniks." This disapproval was reflected in the share price of the Beatles' Northern Songs publishing company, which dropped by the equivalent of 28 cents on the London Stock Exchange.

In response to the furore in the US, a Melody Maker editorial stated that the "fantastically unreasoned reaction" supported Lennon's statement regarding Christ's disciples being "thick and ordinary". Daily Express columnist Robert Pitman wrote, "It seems a nerve for Americans to hold up shocked hands, when week in, week out, America is exporting to us [in Britain] a subculture that makes the Beatles seem like four stern old churchwardens." The reaction was also criticised by some within the US; a Kentucky radio station announced that it would give the Beatles music airplay to show its "contempt for hypocrisy personified", and the Jesuit magazine America wrote that "Lennon was simply stating what many a Christian educator would readily admit."

Epstein proposed that Lennon record an apology at EMI Studios, with Beatles producer George Martin taping. Because Lennon was away on holiday, this would have required him to record it by phone. According to EMI recording engineer Geoff Emerick, engineers spent several days designing a dummy plaster head to amplify a phone recording to make it sound more realistic. This plan was abandoned when Lennon decided against recording the apology.

The Beatles left London on 11 August for their US tour. Lennon's wife Cynthia said that he was nervous and upset because he had made people angry simply by expressing his opinion. The Beatles held a press conference in Barrow's suite at the Astor Tower Hotel in Chicago. Lennon did not want to apologise but was advised by Epstein and Barrow that he should. Lennon was also distressed that he had potentially endangered the lives of his bandmates by speaking his mind. While preparing to meet the reporters, he broke down in tears in front of Epstein and Barrow. To present a more conservative image for the cameras, the Beatles eschewed their London fashions for dark suits, plain shirts, and neckties.

At the press conference, Lennon said: "I suppose if I had said television was more popular than Jesus, I would have got away with it. I'm sorry I opened my mouth. I'm not anti-God, anti-Christ, or anti-religion. I was not knocking it. I was not saying we are greater or better." He stressed that he had been remarking on how other people viewed and popularised the Beatles. He described his own view of God by quoting the Bishop of Woolwich, "not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us." He was adamant that he was not comparing himself with Christ, but attempting to explain the decline of Christianity in the UK. "If you want me to apologise," he concluded, "if that will make you happy, then OK, I'm sorry."

Journalists gave a sympathetic response and told Lennon that people in the Bible Belt were "quite notorious for their Christian attitude". Placated by Lennon's gesture, Tommy Charles cancelled WAQY's Beatles bonfire, which had been planned for 19 August, when the Beatles were due to perform in the South. The Vatican's newspaper L'Osservatore Romano announced that the apology was sufficient, while a New York Times editorial similarly stated that the matter was over, but added, "The wonder is that such an articulate young man could have expressed himself imprecisely in the first place."

Wikipedia

 

When Mum Met the Beatles: Japan 1966

At the time my mother Satoko Kawasaki was a stewardess for Japan Airlines. When news hit that The Beatles were to come to Tokyo for a concert in 1966, she knew she had to be on that flight. However, the crew had already been decided months before, so in order for her to be part of the historic flight, she had to prove that her presence there was invaluable, and got in touch with the JAL PR department to see what could be done.

Read the full article at http://goldhatphotography.com

The Beatles on Safari

March 4, 1966 - More Popular Than Jesus

On this date, The London Evening Standard published an interview with John Lennon by his friend Maureen Cleave. John was quoted as saying: "Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue about that. I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now. I don't know which will go first - rock'n'roll or Christianity. Jesus was alright but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me." His words attracted little attention in Great Britain but when they were reprinted in the US in Datebook, southern Christian fundamentalists reacted with hate and outrage.

The videos below document the response to John's remarks, including the Beatles press conference in Chicago on August 11, 1966, Brian Epstein's press conference for the U.S. media, and the reaction in Birmingham, Alabama:

'I Don't Like Anything Different or Unusual' Says John

"The Merseys could be very big if they produce more records like 'Sorrow' ", said John Lennon, as he reclined on the couch, reaching into his breast pocket for his cigarette pack.

The setting was not unfamiliar--a dressing-room like any other, but it seemed strangely empty with the absence of George, Paul and Ringo and everyone else, who is part of the Beatle entourage.

The unconquerable Lennon was in a surprisingly talkative mood that evening, and seemed somewhat unusually content.

I asked John what type of music he liked.

"I don't like anything different, or unusual, just nice records."

Although the controversy of their lack of personal appearances and pre-recorded T.V. inserts had died down, John did, however, have a few brief words to say on the subject. "I can't see any difference between filming inserts for T.V. or doing it live--the viewers see exactly the same thing. I don't know what all the fuss was about."

RED CARNATIONS

Looking around the dressing-room, it was not difficult to notice the empty cigarette packs, coke bottles, half-empty cups of tea and pushed-aside plates of uneaten food, and four black silk suits with a red carnation in each buttonhole--which made one think that the Beatles were part of a wedding party (most unlikely)!

"Every time we arrive at London Airport, or depart from it, and whenever we appear anywhere", said John, "this girl sends us red carnations. She's been doing it for a couple of years--actually she came to see us before you arrived tonight."

Knowing that the Beatles are television fanatics, I asked John to give his personal views on pop programmes and late-night shows.

"I liked 'Whole Scene Going', it was a good programme because they introduced new people like Barry Fantoni and Wendy Varnals. Another good thing about it was that their guests weren't only pop stars, but actors, writers and other personalities."

I then asked John what he thought the limit should be to a "hot" conversation on a late night show.

"I don't think there should be any limit at all, that is why they should put late-night shows on at two o'clock in the morning, that way people wouldn't have to watch it and say how disgusting so-and-so's behaviour was. The average viewer sits glued to the box right up to the epilogue no matter what's on, so if they put these shows on very late, it will only be those who really want to watch it, who will bother to stay up so late."

Just then Mal walked in with two teas in paper cups. "Is that all they've got", asked John. "Why can't we have a proper cup of tea out of the pot--I'm sure the directors don't have their tea in paper cups. See if you can get us two more cups."

I assured John that the canteen tea was very good, probably better than if it had been poured from a pot. He went on to mutter something about being as good as the directors!

Anyway, after a very enjoyable cup of tea I asked John if he found pirate D.J.'s embarrassing in the way that they talk, and "what would you personally like to wear, however outrageous it was?"

John replied:--"To the first question, no. I think they do a very good job. And to the latter one, I wouldn't know what clothes I liked till I saw them."

I asked John whether the Beatles expected to be knocked from the top pretty soon, and if so, how would they feel about it.

"I think that within the next couple of years there will be someone very big, perhaps even bigger than us--it might be another group, or it may be a solo artiste. I don't know about the others, but I wouldn't object to sitting back and having the limelight taken away from us."

Somehow we brought the conversation round to the Stones and John said:--"I always call Bill Wyman--Charlie. He gets offended because he thinks I'm mistaking him for Charlie Watts. It's only because I think he looks like Charles II, that's why I call him Charlie."

John went on to talk about children. "I now take notice of other kids, and compare them to Julian. I think to myself 'that's clever, I don't think mine can do that' or vice versa. A lot of people like having children for their old age, I just want them because I like them."

I asked John if he had any plans for a third book or maybe an autobiography.

"Writing an autobiography has passed through my mind--but I've got a memory like a sieve. Anyway I certainly hope to be writing another book, if I can find the time."

John's reply to--'what is your most dreaded fear' was quite simply:--"Too much of certain things". And when I asked him if he'd ever been scared, he answered:--"I've never been paralysed with fear."

It has been said that when the Beatles play live together after a considerable gap, that John suffers from forgetfulness more than the others, and often can't remember chords or even the words.

To this John said:--"Yes it's true. I can't play any of 'Rubber Soul', it's been so un-rehearsed--the only time I played any of the numbers on it, was when we recorded it! I forget about songs, they're only valid for a certain time."

"What about sentimental values?", I enquired. "Do you have any?"

"I've never really thought about it. I'm as sentimental as anyone else--I'm not immuned to sentimentality."

OGRE

People (usually journalists) are always talking about "Lennon the ogre" or similar words to make him sound monstrous, so I asked John whether or not he was aware that people are frightened of him, and often clam up in front of him, in case he should make them feel small.

"Yes I am aware of the fact. But it's only because people believe what they read, and no-one has ever written the truth about me. I used to get very impatient with these type of people, and I know I used to make them feel uncomfortable by being rather off-hand, but I don't bother any more--I try and be nice!"

I then asked "nice Mr. Lennon" if he trusted anybody implicitly.

"Only the other three and my wife".

Just then the strangeness of the dressing-room wore off, because in walked Paul, George and Ringo, so I wound off our interview by asking John if he'd always been vague, or only since becoming a Beatle.

"I've always been vague--my characteristics haven't changed since becoming a Beatle."

And on that vague note I left the now familiar setting--John, Paul, George and Ringo in their dressing-room plus full entourage.

Behind the Headlines

FREDERICK JAMES digs out some background facts inspired by the news-making stories from The Beatles' December 1965 tour.

Nobody could doubt that THE BEATLES' December concert tour of the U.K. was one of the most action-packed of their career. Eight thousand pounds had to be returned by the management of the Cardiff Capitol after all seats for their two shows had been allocated. Scores of policemen linked arms right across the front of the stalls at Hammersmith where nearly 7,000 Beatle People packed the vast Odeon during the evening. The crowds, the screams, the enthusiasm of the fans and the details of the actual performances have passed into pop history via news reports.

YOU MUST HAVE READ ABOUT THE SMASHING OF GEORGE'S GUITAR. IT WAS FASTENED TO THE BOOT OF THE GROUP'S AUSTIN PRINCESS AND IT FELL OFF DURING THE DRIVE TO SCOTLAND. ACCORDING TO A DISAPPOINTED GEORGE, AT LEAST FOURTEEN LORRIES MUST HAVE RUN OVER THE GUITAR BEFORE THE BOYS LOCATED ALL THE BATTERED BITS AT THE SIDE OF THE MOTORWAY.

Luckily this wasn't one of the instruments George needed on stage. He'd been using it to rehearse. Before setting out for Scotland all the boys got together in the West End basement flat occupied by Neil and Mal. Here they put in nearly eight hours of act-polishing practice on the new numbers for the tour.

Instruments used during this session were strapped together on the back of the Princess. Mal had already left London by van with the rest of the equipment. His load included seven guitars--two each for John and Paul plus three for George.

The last time a Beatle lost a guitar was two years ago when the boys put on their first Christmas Show at Finsbury Park. John and George had purchased a pair of Gibson Jumbos towards the end of 1962. They were very proud of these having saved up their money for the H.P. deposits with much determination. The Jumbos were the first two spares bought by the boys. Otherwise they were using stuff bought in Germany for £40 or £60.

By the time of the Finsbury Park show the total collection of Beatle guitars had grown, but John and George were using their Gibson Jumbos in the dressing room and they were there as stand-by replacements if strings snapped during a performance.

Recalls John: "George and I often took a Jumbo home with us so nobody noticed until the end of the season that one was missing. A week or two afterwards I asked Mal where he'd put my Jumbo. It was only then that we realised the guitar had been pinched at Finsbury Park. No, I never got it back."

LOSING HIS £300 GRETSCH COUNTRYMAN WASN'T THE END OF GEORGE'S PROBLEMS IN SCOTLAND. DURING THE OPENING PERFORMANCE IN GLASGOW HIS AMPLIFIER CEASED TO FUNCTION. SAYS GEORGE: "I CHECKED THE JACK PLUGS, TWIDDLED THE VOLUME CONTROL, FIDDLED WITH EVERYTHING IN SIGHT. IT TURNED OUT THAT THE AMPLIFIER ITSELF WAS O.K. BUT THE LEAD HAD BROKEN SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY."

Way back in the Cavern days the boys were used to this type of trouble. Amps and lights blew up quite regularly and the cause was usually the excessive amount of condensation on the walls and ceiling above the stage. So much damp dripped down that electrical problems became an accepted occupational hazard of Cavern sessions!

According to Neil, equipment break-downs happened less frequently once The Beatles started to play the major theatre and cinema circuits. The last major disasterhe can remember happened in Brighton one Sunday during the summer of '63. "Mal hadn't joined us then," says Neil. "I was responsible for setting up the equipment on stage. Everything was ready--switched on, tested and working. The boys used to open with a very fast Little Richard number at that time. I think it was 'Oh My Soul'. Anyway, George had a big guitar intro on the number. After a few seconds EVERYTHING went dead. It was pointless to think of continuing so I got the stage people to close the curtains right away. I dashed on stage and we re-checked everything."

A minute later all seemed to be well, the curtains were opened for a second time and George went into his hefty intro.

"Then, for a second time, everything just went dead," recalls Neil. "It was ridiculous. We thought we were all going potty. This time John ran into the wings muttering something about the whole lot blowing up at any moment!"

The cause was traced to the drummer with one of the show's other groups. Not to The Beatles' amps or leads or speakers! This drummer was shifting his kit around behind the scenes and he'd dumped a heavy bass drum on the mains supply point. The fact that he broke circuit just after The Beatles started to play was pure coincidence.

THE TWO CONCERTS AT THE LIVERPOOL EMPIRE MUST HAVE BROUGHT BACK MANY MEMORIES FOR JOHN, PAUL, GEORGE AND RINGO.

It was at this theatre, on Sunday, 28 October 1962, that The Beatles made their first major concert appearance. They came on after The Breakaways as Item 3 in the first half of the programme. After doing just four numbers--including "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You"--they stayed on stage to accompany Craig Douglas. The rest of the bill included Sounds Incorporated, Kenny Lynch and Jet Harris with Little Richard closing the show.

At the Empire on Sunday, 5 December 1965, they played to two capacity houses just as they had done over three years earlier. Again the audience included friends and relatives from various parts of Merseyside. The audience also included two little girls who managed to meet The Beatles backstage to discuss their Save-The-Cavern campaign.

A thousand shows--a thousand stories. But to the boys the most important performance is always the one they're just about to do. And this Autumn Tour was no exception to the rule.

What Happened to Paul McCartney's Tooth

BRIAN EPSTEIN: "Last mid-December [1965], Paul injured his lip and chipped his tooth in the moped accident. He honestly thought no one would notice the chip, for it is so small. I told him three times he should do something about it. It is in a place where there are no nerve ends, so there is no pain. Paul assured me that he would have the tooth capped, but -- unfortunately -- he has not done so. (Could he be afraid of the dentist?) It is my opinion that he will just let it be."

Beatles Talk

In this special series FREDERICK JAMES lets his tape recorder listen in on informal conversations between John, Paul, George and Ringo

This month: Ringo and John

JOHN: Yes, ta, we had a very nice holiday, thank you, and we've come back looking all brown all over except in the parts where the sun didn't get like up the nose and down the throat. Everyone just sat around and watched Ringo's beard grow, which is a very marvellous thing.

RINGO: I gather we missed a good do down at George's place, John.

JOHN: Yes, bit of a party apparently while we were away. I think we'd better decide now to have Monthly Wedding Anniversaries instead of Annual ones. That means George owes us a First Anniversary party for the 24th of February.

RINGO: We saw all that in the papers about George having electric gates or electric walls all around his house. Well, he must have bought a lot of surplus stock from the James Bond studios while we were in the West Indies because it wasn't there at New Year.

JOHN: That was just the papers exaggerating and getting all excited again. I expect Neil or Alf just flashed a torch at them outside the gate and they made up the rest.

RINGO: The gate just looked ordinary last weekend.

JOHN: Of course it was. Still, I must look into the idea of having full gas-fired electric fencing put round my swimming pool. It'll stop all the wild beasts of Surrey having a crafty moonlight bathe and turning me water green!

RINGO: Enough of this madness! What are we going to talk about?

JOHN: Oooh sorry, I thought we'd already started. All that about the gas-fired fence wasn't just careless ad lib, you know, I always prepare my BEATLES TALK with great care.

RINGO: By the time this issue comes out the BBC will be showing the Shea Stadium film. Let's talk about that.

JOHN: Well, we think it's a fabulous film. In colour it's great because all our faces look blue and brown under the floodlighting. It starts with Paul doing "I'm Down" and we all look very sweaty because it's hot in New York in August and, in any case, "I'm Down" was at the very end of our act and we'd been on stage over half and hour by the time that bit was filmed.

RINGO: And there are also bits showing us running about, getting out of long cars and getting into a helicopter. Then you see us looking out of the helicopter at the New York skyscrapers on the way to Shea.

JOHN: The bits in the dressing room look like a prison. All little cells everywhere. Actually it wasn't an ordinary dressing room. It was where the baseball teams change.

RINGO: And so that everybody won't start writing a lot of letter asking about the badges you can see pinned onto us when we're on stage, let me give you the answer before you ask the question--they're genuine Wells Fargo Agent badges. They were given to us while we were riding in a Fargo van on the way to the concert. John stuck his in the back of his cap.

JOHN: Not at all. I was wearing my head back to front that particular day.

RINGO: Oh, yes. Shea Stadium was the first time we ever used an organ on stage. We'd used it on telly for "Blackpool Night Out" a fortnight earlier and "The Ed Sullivan Show" in New York the day before but not for a live concert.

JOHN: The thing I like about the Shea Stadium film is that everything we do looks larger than life. We were out in the middle of this big baseball pitch on a high platform. All the kids in the audience looked miles away. So if we wanted to wave or anything like that we had to do it very big so that they could see us. But the film cameras were much closer, and in any case they had these long-distance lenses for the close-ups. So the film shows us leaping up and down like maniacs instead of just waving.

RINGO: The whole thing is a bit special for us. We've seen ourselves on telly plenty of times and we've seen a few tapes of concerts but Shea Stadium was the biggest live show we've ever done--I don't see how we "could" do bigger--and all the camerawork and everything is great.

Neil's Column

Both John and I have finished our parts in the film and are back home again. That's a bit of an exaggeration, really, because I did almost nothing compared with John, who, of course, is one of the leading characters in the picture.

All I did was to dress up in various coloured uniforms and stand around in the distance. Anyone could have done it, including all of you. It certainly didn't require any great acting ability.

STRANGE

People have asked me how the film cast reacted to having a Beatle living with them. It was a bit strange for everybody at first. John didn't want any special privileges or anything, he just wanted to be accepted as one of the blokes in the film. This was a bit difficult for some of the cast during the first week or two, but then everyone realised that he was a normal human being who liked a game of cards and a laugh, and everything was all right after that. He got on particularly well with his officer in the film, Michael Crawford, and they ended up great friends. I don't think he particularly liked having his hair cut and I am pretty certain he's rather glad he can now let it get back to its normal length if he wants to.

I can't tell you what John is like in the film, because Dick Lester wouldn't let anyone see the rushes. He told us that he thought that it put actors off if they saw themselves on the screen in odd scenes. The trouble is that you only see the bits that have been filmed the previous day and these might come from different parts of the film. Also, if the scenes were taken several times, you see them more than once. So if you were particularly bad in one take, it really hurts and even though one knows that this bad take will not be used when the film is finally spliced together, you still can't help feeling really depressed and coming to the conclusion that you can't act at all.

FUNNY

The film is a parody on war, so John is funny at times and serious at others. I think, personally, that he is going to come across very well.

Anyone who thinks that we just had a lot of wild parties on location can think again. All the cast were male, of course; there were no girls around anywhere. I believe one did come out for half a day, but I never even saw her. She was forty years old or something. So all we did in the evenings was sit in our house in Santa Isabel near Almeria and play cards or some other game. Risk was very popular. Altogether it was very uncomfortable.

It was the house that was the most trouble. It was real crazy. It had no water or electricity. It was supposed to have both, of course, when we arrived, but the lights used to come on and go off all the time. Water was obtained from a pump in the yard, but it broke down before we got there, and throughout our stay it was being fixed. I believe they did manage to get it working again the day after we left. Living in that house was rough; but the roughest part of all, for both John and yours truly, was getting up every morning at 7.30. We hated it. But when you are filming you've got to start early otherwise you don't get enough done each day.

LUXURY

John did have one bit of luxury on location. He had his Rolls Royce there and his own driver, Anthony, to drive him around. Anthony is Welsh, of course, and you should have heard him swearing about the heat, the dust and the flies. All he wanted to do was to get back to Wales, but whenever he started on about it, John would just laugh. As I told you last month, Ringo came to see us, Paul also flew out, but we left the day before he arrived, so we missed him.

It's great to be back home and I'm going to spend the next couple of weeks catching up on my sleep. We've been so out of touch that I hardly know what's in the Top Ten any more.

I've popped round to see George and Ringo since I've been back. George and John are both busy songwriting, getting material ready for the next lot of recording sessions, which they should have started by the time you're reading this. But more of that next month.

'They Won't Let Us Join The Golf Club' Says Ringo

I enjoyed interviewing Ringo. For one thing it meant a pleasant drive out of busy, congested Central London, into the sunny, stockbroker belt of Surrey; and, secondly, because Ringo is one of the easiest-to-get-on-with people I know.

As I drove in through the massive, light-coloured, wooden gates, which mark the entrance to the Starkey estate, Ringo walked round the corner of the house. "Park it over there," he said, after smiling a greeting, "come into the house." We walked through the hall and turned left into one of the largest and most sumptuous rooms I have ever seen.

Wall-to-wall, charcoal-grey carpet moved silently under our feet as we walked around. "Take a seat," said Ringo, plonking himself down into an easy chair. He was wearing a plain, casual, light-grey sweater, blue chalk-striped trousers and leather moccasins. The usual gold chain was around his wrist and four rings on his fingers. "O.K., what do you want to ask me?"

SILLY QUESTION

Hoping I was avoiding one of those silly questions that the Beatles get put to them at the start of every interview, I asked, "Do you think you've changed a lot in the past four years?" His face showed no sign that he'd ever heard the question before. "Of course I have," he replied instantly, "who doesn't? I don't think anyone just stands still. If you do nothing else, you get older. But sometimes I'm quite sure it's someone else who they're talking about in the paper."

"The last four years have been so different from anything I knew when I was young. Of course, we had a lot of good times before we made it. It wasn't all a tough grind."

"Do you like your life now?" "Yes, definitely," said Ringo. "I didn't know whether I would like living in the country when we came here, but I find it great. I got fed up with our flat in town because it was impossible to relax. I was always being chased for some reason or other. Here it's different. You can get away from everything. John and I have even tried to go out a bit."

LOCAL PUBS

I was fascinated by this. Did Ringo really mean that he and John had made a habit of visiting the local pubs? "Yes, that's right," Ringo said, "we did just that, but it didn't work. Most of the regulars used to accept us--many of them, of course, were businessmen who didn't care about the Beatles. But you always got the blokes who ruin it by making a fuss."

As I had driven up to the house, I noticed there was a golf course behind it. I asked Ringo if he played there. "No," said Ringo, "I wanted to join but they wouldn't let me. Told me they'd got a three-year waiting list and I'd have to join on the end of the queue. I'd like to get in so that I could kid people it was my golf course at the end of the garden."

I noticed a small keyboard amongst the furnishings, but no drum kit. I asked Ringo if he ever played the drums at home. "Very seldom. I don't believe in practising, really. I learnt to play with a group and I believe that I progressed more with them in five weeks than I would have in six months rehearsing by myself in an attic."

I asked him about Zak. Did he like Beatle music? "I don't think he knows the difference between Beatle music and other music, but he certainly seems to enjoy it. He dances to records now." I suddenly had visions of a little Ringo in an Eton collar and asked Ringo where he'd send him to school. "I haven't thought about it very much yet. I don't particularly like the idea of him going to a public school, but the difficulty is that all the other boys he will play with around here will go to one, and he'll feel different if he doesn't stay with his friends. But then you never know what may happen by the time he's due to start."

RUNS BUILDERS

What did he do with his spare time? I asked him. "I run Bricky Builders, but they don't seem to be making much profit ouside the Beatles." "How come?" I asked. "Well, after they'd finished working here, they moved on to John's place, to do something for him and I believe George has got some ideas which he wants to use them for, when they've finished at John's."

"Just one more question," I said. "What about the Beatles' future plans?"

"Everyone keeps asking about that," said Ringo, "the trouble is it's very difficult to answer because we don't have everything cut and dried ourselves. Sometimes I feel that people think that we've got a big list of things to do for the next two years stuck on the wall and we just can't be bothered to tell anyone about it or want to keep it hidden or something. It's just not true. None of us have got any spare material, so John, Paul and George have to write new stuff before we can go into the recording studio each time.

"Also we're waiting on the film. We can't write the film script ourselves, we don't know how, so we have to wait for somebody else to produce one, then we can read it and see if it's O.K. The trouble is, of course, that everyone keeps talking about it. I suppose they can't understand why we haven't made another two films by now. The answer is we don't want to make 'just another film'. The scriptwriters kept on offering us different versions of 'Help' before we found the bloke we've got now.

"That's enough questions," said Ringo, "let's have a cup of tea," and he disappeared out of the room to return a couple of minutes later with a tray, two cups, teapot, a bowl of sugar and a plate of Munch-mallows.

Which suited me fine. I can't think of a better way to end an interview with a Beatle, or this series of interviews with four Beatles, than having tea with Ringo.

Beatles Talk

Recorded press conference excerpts transcribed in question and answer form by Frederick James

Q: A couple of years ago you said you were most influenced by people like Chuck Berry and LaVern Baker. Who do you admire now?

PAUL: Byrds, Mamas and Papas.

JOHN: Beach Boys are great. Spoonful are nice. We like a lot of American groups. I still like Chuck Berry. I haven't burnt his records or anything!

Q: A disc jockey said the last few bars of "Rain" were recorded backwards. Is this true and, if so, whose idea was it?

JOHN: It is true. After the session--it ended about four or five in the morning--I went home with a tape to see what else we could do with the song. I was sort of half asleep and not knowing what I was doing I played the tape backwards on my own machine. That's how it happened.

Q: Is there any special significance in the term "Yellow Submarine"?

PAUL: No, not really. It's a happy place. We were trying to write a children's song. That was the basic idea and there's nothing more to be read into it.

Q: George, do you feel that Indian music will be more influential in pop music in the future?

GEORGE: I personally hope there will be more Indian influence generally in music because it's worth it. I'd just like to see more people appreciating it.

Q: Do you get tired of this whole hokus pokus--the press conferences, the screaming crowds--and decide you'd just like to sit back on your fat wallets and forget the whole thing?

JOHN: When we feel like that we take a fat holiday on our fat wallets. Then we get fed up with holidays and feel like coming out and doing all this again. There's time to fit everything in, you know, a little of everything.

Q: What really does inspire young people today?

JOHN: I don't know, honestly. What we're doing inspires them to a very limited degree but just to enjoy themselves.

PAUL: They get inspired by people who talk honestly to them. And not by people who take the long way round and talk in riddles. If they believe us about some things it's because we can say it like they think it. Because you know we're exactly the same. We don't pretend to be anything better than we are.

Q: Are you going to have a hand in writing your next movie?

JOHN: Who? Me? I don't think so. I'd sooner leave somebody else to write our film scripts. I don't know how to do it.

Q: Gentlemen, you received medals for assisting the economy a year ago. The economy seems to be in pretty rough shape right now and . . .

GEORGE: And we're still assisting it!

Q: . . . I was wondering if you have anything to give it a fresh boost?

JOHN: We could give them the medals back!

Q: Who is that young man with the lengthy haircut to your right rear?

JOHN: That's no haircut that's good old Dave. Dave Crosby from The Byrds. A mate of ours.

Q: What normal everyday things would you like to do which you cannot because you're a Beatle, Ringo?

RINGO: The thing is that when we're off, I live quite normally. It's only on tour that we're The Beatles and it's all like this.

Q: Is it my imagination or are you boys doing a little less physical effort on the stage now?

PAUL: I don't know. Probably you're right. I mean you manage to sort out after a few years just how much jumping about will produce just how much sweat.

The 'Paperback Writer' Session

As we walked down the corridor towards E.M.I.'s No. 2 studio (where else would one go when sitting-in on a Beatles' recording session), the commissionaire pointed out to us that the boys were in No. 3 instead. So we made our way back to the front of the building and as we approached the studio door, the red light went on--which meant that they were recording. So we waited for them to finish. Three minutes later we walked in.

On entering the studio, we found John and Paul surrounded by a mass of equipment--most significant of all, were their new massive amplifiers. Paul was clad in his distinctive casual recording gear of black trousers, black moccasion-type shoes, white shirt with fawn stripes, a black sleeveless pullover and to top it all--orange-tinted specs. John sported green velvet trousers, a blue buttoned up wool vest and black suede boots.

The basic track of "Paperback Writer" had been recorded the previous day, and now John and Paul were working out a detailed backing. Paul was perched on a stool thumbing away at a red and white Rickenbacker guitar, (moving with the music as he does on stage) whilst the lyrics boomed through the studio speakers--so we were very honoured at being the first to hear their new single besides George Martin and of course, the Beatles.

We then spotted Ringo's head behind the screen in the far corner--he was playing chess with Neil. So we walked over, "Who's winning?", I asked. "Neil's the expert", Ringo replied, and went back to the chess board to concentrate on how to get his king out of danger from an attack by Neil's bishop and castle.

The music stopped. George Martin came into the studio from the control room to have a tete-a-tete with Paul as to what they could do to improve the backing.

"What are you trying to do with this one?", I asked Paul. "Have you heard the lyrics?", came the reply. "Yes, I think it's very unusual". "The trouble is", said Paul, "That we've done everything we can with four people, so it's always a problem to ring the changes and make it sound different. That's why we have got all these guitars and equipment here." That must have been the understatement of the year, because the studio was littered with pianos, grand pianos, amplifiers, guitars, percussion instruments, and other odd bits and pieces which were strewn over the studio floor.

The studio was sectioned-off with brown canvas screens and what seemed like thousands of black cables running from the amps and other electrical equipment to the control room over the heavily marked wooden floor. To stop the echo, E.M.I. have covered some of the floor with old carpets.

The big heavy sound-proof door which stops any of the noise of the outside world seeping into the studio, burst open, and in strolled George looking very elegant in his Mongolian lamb fur coat with black cap and oblong metal specs.

He was obviously on top of the world and bubbling over with enthusiasm, ready to record a dozen numbers. He threw his coat along side Paul's fur jacket and got down to work out the backing with John and Paul.

John, George and George Martin huddled round Paul, who was seated at the piano trying to work out a bass bit, before asking George Martin to play it. John leaned on the piano while he listened to Paul's ideas for a while. Then he picked up his orange Gretsch guitar and proceeded to pick away at it. At the same time Paul transferred to a Vox organ.

Although John and Paul were both working on the song together, it was originally Paul's idea. He asked the engineer to play it back at half speed so that John and George could do some vocal bits.

They were now all set to go. George Martin gave the O.K. The recording light went on and the basic sound track was played back through the "cans" they each had clamped over their heads. They did several takes. John and George hit some very high notes, but their voices kept cracking. "I don't think I can make it", said George, "unless I have a cup of tea. Where's Mal?".

Right on cue at the end of the fourth take Mal emerged into the studio laden with tea, biscuits and something very special--toast and strawberry jam. Everything was immediately dropped and a sudden swoop was made on the toast and jam. Ringo, who was still in the corner trying to work out his next move, only got one piece of toast, so Mal offered to make another batch as it had proved so popular.

Meanwhile Beatles Book photographer Leslie Bryce was clicking away.

After the toast and jam had been devoured it was back to work. Paul suddenly got an inspiration--he dived across to the piano and started playing bits of "Frere Jacques", he was highly delighted at the thought of having it in the new single.

"O.K. let's try it", said George Martin. So John and George gathered round the mike and off they went. But it was a false start, Paul's head appeared over the top of the piano and he queried "Did you come in at the right place?". "We can't hear it properly", said John, "anyway I thought that was the end of it". George promptly told him it was the beginning!

After they had finished taping these bits, the tracks were played back into the studio while everyone listened in silence. George Martin was the first to speak--"I think that the best thing we've added are the 'Frere Jacques' bits". Ringo who had finally beaten Neil at a game of chess by check-mating him in several brilliant moves involving a queen, a bishop and a castle, said that he thought John and Paul sounded as though they were singing through water! Highly uncomplimentary, so Paul then made for the organ once again and started to work out a sound which resembled that of Scottish bag pipes.

John then came swooping across the studio and shouted out--"You've got it. You've got it". Paul then started dum-dee-dumming away at everyone else--it was just like a scene from "My Fair Lady"!

George Martin appeared over John's shoulder and said "I see what you mean". Paul announced that someone else should play it--meaning George Martin. John and George then went back to their mikes and added the vocals over the top.

After the first track Paul looked over the top of the piano and asked John and George if they were singing it right.

George turned round, lowered his glasses to the tip of his nose and looked down at Paul in a typical school-masterish fashion and said "To the best of our ability Paul!"

And so the boys went on--getting the sound that you will hear on "Paperback Writer".

It was a long session. It took something like ten hours to record because the Beatles insisted on sticking at it until they were completely satisfied that they can do no more.

When you listen to "Paperback Writer" bear in mind what went on beforehand to achieve this really great sound, and I'm sure you'll appreciate it all the more.